Releasing Bumper on Delivery

[Yeller Dawg]

Hello Robert (et al),
I have a 10 mo. old British YLF that is doing well on her obedience--she is coming when called and retrieving well, the problem is delivery. She brings the bumper to me, delivering to front, but doesn’t want to give it up.

By that I don’t mean play tug of war, she just doesn’t want me to take it from her. She returns, sit in front of me and then starts moving her head to avoid my hands when I reach for her; she'll crouch her front end and duck her head to avoid me getting the bumper. Now she has started sitting more sideways in front of me, so I have a worse angle to get at her. If I try correcting her position or lift her head, about half the time her efforts to counter cause her to drop the bumper.

My normal routine is to praise her for the retrieve, letting her hold the bumper for several seconds and then reach under her jaw and use my fingers to press between her upper and lower jaws/teeth and take the bumper with the other hand. This worked well when was younger and smaller, but as she’s gotten older it's become more difficult as she has started all the above to counter me. She does great with tennis balls, laying them my lap if I won’t take it from her.

My training friends all say to have her FF’d. Any thoughts or recommendation?

Regards,
YD

[Robert Milner]

Run her on a light weight 5 ft check cord (dragging it with her). When she returns and sits, slowly grasp the checkcord. As she is sitting, stoke gently on shoulders with soft gently praise. Then put your hand on the dummy and hold it (without pulling) untils she releases. Do not pry it out of her mouth. Keep your mouth shut and your hands off of her except for the shoulder stroking.

You could also try paying her to release with a treat. However, that is quite likely to start her spitting out the dummy early in order to get the treat.

She is probably avoiding your hands because you have been prying the dummy out of her mouth.

[Yeller Dawg]

Thanks Robert. I'll give that a try.

[deloid]

Originally Posted by Robert Milner

Run her on a light weight 5 ft check cord (dragging it with her). When she returns and sits, slowly grasp the checkcord. As she is sitting, stoke gently on shoulders with soft gently praise. Then put your hand on the dummy and hold it (without pulling) untils she releases. Do not pry it out of her mouth. Keep your mouth shut and your hands off of her except for the shoulder stroking.

You could also try paying her to release with a treat. However, that is quite likely to start her spitting out the dummy early in order to get the treat.

She is probably avoiding your hands because you have been prying the dummy out of her mouth.

Great advice Robert...

It seems like a "territorial' or personal property thing has already started. If so, would kneeling down to be less intimidating be helpful here?

[deloid]

I'll answer my own question since I had a bit of time to think about it.
First of all, it is important that the pup learns, even in play that you are the boss and he/she will achieve happiness by pleasing you.
Keeping the bumper from you is a rebelliousness that is better avoided than corrected. Once there though I like what Robert wrote.
Stooping would be a mistake. Though it is less intimidating, it makes you an equal to the pup and you want to regain the "please the master" mentality.
I left my original post intact just for reference and converstion but I back off that opinion now.

[Yeller Dawg]

Robert,
Just thought I’d check in and let you know how the training is going, but first I want to add a few details to my earlier post…

When retrieving, I always run her on my short check cord, though my short one is about twenty foot.

When she returns from the retrieve, I lean over, slowly grasp the cord buckle/collar with my left hand, or stand on it if there is enough slack for me to do so, and praise her, as I mentioned above.

I then slowly reach for and grasp the bumper with my right hand, not pulling mind you, and in a normal but commanding tone, command her to “Give.”

If she hasn’t started her aforementioned shenanigans, this is where she begins avoiding the taking of the bumper, always has.

It is at this point that I slowly reach up, with the left hand (that is already on the check cord), apply pressure between the jaws and command “Give” again, taking the bumper.

As far as her avoiding my taking the bumper, no, I don't feel that is the problem. She has had this “head avoidance” thing since she was very young, always has really. She doesn’t like to be touched on her head, especially from above (see my post last Aug.). So I’m pretty sure her issue lies elsewhere and not in my removing the dummy from her mouth.

I say all of this because I couldn’t help but notice your post of the video clip “Bad Handlers Build Drive” the day after I posted asking for advice. I certainly hope this video wasn’t aimed at my post.

As an update, the jury is still out. She has responded about the same. Worse some days than others.

I apologize for the lateness of my report, but I’ve been putting food on the table and kibbles in the feed dish.

Regards,
YD

[Robert Milner]

Trade her a treat for the dummy.

[deloid]

Originally Posted by Robert Milner

Trade her a treat for the dummy.

Beat me to the response. I think the head shyness neds to be dealt with before you continue with bumber training. Give her a few weeks of vacation from training and just let her enjoy being a dog. Have plenty of small treats at the ready and whenever she comes to you praise her just for being near you and hold the treat in your hand, drop it down to her now turned down head and let her catch the scent. When she catches the scent slowly raise your hand so she is looking at you or the hand and when she is ready, present the treat with praise. I think this, done slowly over time, might combat the head shyness (submissive, shy behavior).

With a horse this would take extreme patience and a thoughtful progression over at least a month. I suspect dogs might learn more quickly. Somewhere along the line perhaps even by nature, she lost or never developed complete trust in people. You know you have her when you talk and she looks you square in the eye with her head upright and...she doesn't budge when bend you go to pet her (she may come toward you).