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Thread: Dog Food . . . Again!

  1. #1
    Join Date
    May 2008
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    Indiana
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    1,710

    Default Dog Food . . . Again!

    I am still in search of at least three dog food brands/formulations that meet my standards for quality ingredients at a reasonable price. I find the more I think I know, the harder it is to satisfy those standards. It either isn't up to snuff in the ingredient list or is nearly $50 / bag! While doing more research I have come up with a few questions of you loyal Duckhill Forumers.

    Firstly, I am curious to hear from WDSprings to hear about how his raw feeding experience is going. What are you feeding? Do you feed products from the supermarket or are you buying from a supplier of raw dog food products? Do you have any suggestions for us if we were considering either switching to raw foods for our dogs or perhaps using raw food to suppliment commercial dog food?

    Secondly, have any of you fed a dog food that is low charbohydrate or grain free? I bought a bag of "Taste of the Wild" which is grain free. It is not yet listed on the dog food analysis site. Although it is pretty high in protein and fat (I think it's 32% protein and 18% fat) it isn't too calorically dense (360 or 370 kcal / cup). I assume this is because it doesn't have many carb calories. Rather than grains it uses potatoes and sweet potatoes as a carb source. Blue Buffalo also has a low carb food called Blue Wilderness. Innova has a grain free high protein and fat diet as well. Anybody tried any of these or a similar product? If so, what are your thoughts?

    Thirdly, I will report on my experience with Wellness Large Breed Puppy food. My pups are eight and a half months old and have grown into lean, but well muscled pups of about 45 lbs. or so. Their growth rate has been moderate and their health has been great. The only problem has been that the food is apparently as palatable after it has been processed by the pups as it is before they eat it! This is, of course, not a habit that I wish my pups to practice, nor is it something I am proud to admit on the Forum. I went through a long mental list of potential causes for this evil, but I could not come up with a good answer. I attempt to keep the kennel and yard as poop free as possible (you can ask 20Fan to vouch for this as he was up for a visit last fall). They are getting the appropriate amount of food and are not malnourished. About the only thing I could come up with is that they were sometimes bored and like the bright kid in school who wasn't challenged, they were getting into trouble for lack of anything better to do. Despite my best efforts I haven't been able to solve this issue.

    Recently, a friend of mine returned from Ohio with a British Lab pup from Shannon Woods. Shannon sent him home with a bag of Wellness Large Breed Puppy food to feed her. Recently I got a call from my friend and we talked about his new pup. He asked if I had any cures for a pup eatting their poop. Breese is a house pup, but if she got the chance she would eat her old stools. A light bulb went on in my head. Last week I talked to the manager of a local pet food store where I was shopping/researching and I told him that I was considering switching puppy foods and I told him why. He said that he had heard this problem about Wellness Large Breed puppy food from many others as well! I have now come to the conclussion that my pups aren't preverted or evil; their food, for whatever reason, is the problem! I am almost through with the last of the Wellness and am transitioning to Tony's (Leo455) Nutri-Source Large Breed Puppy food. I have also been looking into the Blue Buffalo that is fed by one of our members.

    I thought that I'd share this information with you in spite of the fact that it is not a pleasant subject and in spite of the fact that it is a little embarrasing for me to admit to you folks. My hope is that you may share in the little nugget of information that I seem to have discovered. It is also my hope that by my example of admitting an embarrasing fact about my own dogs that perhaps others will be more willing to share information that may be of a sensitive nature or embarrasing to them so that we may learn from other member's experiences.

    I look forward to hearing any answers to the questions I have asked from those of you who may be able to shed some light on them.

    Swack
    Last edited by Swack; 01-03-2010 at 04:58 PM.

  2. #2
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    Aug 2009
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    SE Wisconsin
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    Default

    I don't know why dogs eat poop but I've been meaning to ask. My Brit Lab pup will eat her own and our beagle's if I let her. The beagle isn't as interested in dog poop but will raid our cat's litter box if she has the chance.

    On the topic of food, my lab had a case of the trots recently. It seemed to be due to her stomach being irritated from some tree seeds she snarfed up on our walks around the neighborhood (the seeds had accumulated in her stomach over time and had not been passing through, and the vet had to induce vomiting). The vet recommended a bland diet of rice and boiled hamburger for a few days to let her stomach settle down. This diet, and avoiding the seeds, seemed to help. Has anyone else used a similar diet as a temporary measure, does it provide the necessary nutrition?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    199

    Default I see at the local farm store.

    That Diamond is switching how they make there food. The new bags say natural on them big strip down the side. And of course corn is no longer the main ingredient. Kind of read like eukanuba ingredients. I did see where it was $26 for 40 lbs. This was for adult food, don't know if all the level's of food have switched over yet are not. I am feeding my adult chessie this food now,,,,,,,,,,,,just a house dog. The british lab pup still gets eukanuba and looks great.

  4. #4
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    Aug 2008
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    Georgetown, KY
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    Swack,
    I have found the better or clean the food is, the worse this problem is. I have this problem with my females more than males? I keep a can or two around of pineapple chunks to mix into everyones food. It does something. It works for me.
    If you can afford it check Orgin out. 65$ a 40lb bag if you can get it. We board 2 Great Danes that are on it. Open the bag and it smells like fresh Salmon. But watch the 40% protien and 18% fat and yes my year old female found the fresh process before I could pick it up. Pineapples out again!
    Tony
    When you start trying to make it complicated you make the training job more difficult.
    Robert Milner

  5. #5
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    May 2008
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    Indiana
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    Default

    Thanks for the replies! I guess that I'm not alone in my frustration. My dogs are prone to eatting deer poop in the woods as I work, and I scold them for it, but it only slows them down a little. That doesn't bother me too much, in fact I have a book entitled "The Complete Herbal Book for the Dog" written in 1971 by Julliette de Bairacli Levy. In it she claims that dogs should be allowed to eat the poop of ruminants because they get vitamins and minerals from the digested plant material (dogs aren't well equipped to digest plant material on their own). However, for some reason eatting their own poop isn't as acceptable to me. I guess it's not a huge problem, but it is kind of like banging your knuckle on the door casing when you open the door. If you do it once it is no big deal, your knuckle hurts just a little. But if you do it again and again, even though it's just a little bump, your knuckle begins to get sorer and sorer and that little bump begins to make you madder than one little bump would.

    Tony, I like the idea of the pineapple. I might give that a try. It also makes sense that the better the food, the more likely the poop might be more attractive. However, I would think that the good stuff would have been assimilated by the dog's digestive system, but maybe not all of it? I know that dog's tend to like cat poop. Cat food is usually higher in protein than dog food, as cats are obligate carnivores. Perhaps the reason that females tend to be more prone to this problem is because they are pre-programed to like the taste of poop so they can keep their puppies clean.

    I wonder if the grains in commercial dog food may be a cause because dogs don't digest them as completely as meat? That was one reason that I bought the grain-free Taste of the Wild. I'll bet that a dog fed a raw meat diet would not eat the resulting stool. Maybe WDSprings can give us his experience there as well.

    Jim, I have often used the boiled hamburger and rice or even cottage cheese for a dog with a digestive upset. Typically, I take the dog off all food for a day and then feed the bland diet for three days and then feed a half portion of their regular feed for a day and once I see that they are having normal poop I put them back on their normal ration. I think that there is adequate nutrition in the bland diet for a short period, but I doubt that it would be a complete and balanced diet for the long run.

    Duckman, I don't know about the packaging change for Diamond, but you need to understand that their is a lot of hype in the marketing of dog food. The word "Natural" may appeal to people and help sell more dog food, but what does it mean? Arsenic is "Natural" and so is Nicotine; both are deadly poisons. (Nicotine in high concentrations was once used as an insecticide and it was very poisonous to humans in that form.) Look for high quality sources of meat protein, whole grains, and a named fat source like chicken fat. Avoid unnamed meat sources like "meat and bone meal", by-product meals, grain fractions like corn gluten meal or corn bran, by-products of other manufactering processes like brewers rice, and the list goes on. The more I think I know about dog food the harder it is to buy good dog food, but when you do it may save you on the overall cost of feeding your dog . . . because your dog will eat it twice!

    Swack
    Last edited by Swack; 01-04-2010 at 09:32 PM.

  6. #6
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    Oct 2009
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    saskatchewan
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    Hey guys,
    Have any of you seen or used Horizon Legacy? It is made locally here and was just curious as to its availability and cost in the US. It costs $58 cdn at Petland. We are very happy with it and no poop eating.

  7. #7
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    Georgetown, KY
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchy View Post
    Hey guys,
    Have any of you seen or used Horizon Legacy? It is made locally here and was just curious as to its availability and cost in the US. It costs $58 cdn at Petland. We are very happy with it and no poop eating.
    Because it's frozen solid and hard as rocks . And no never heard of it.
    Tony
    When you start trying to make it complicated you make the training job more difficult.
    Robert Milner

  8. #8
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    Feb 2009
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    Near Peoria IL (Dunlap)
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    Raw Feeding....

    Well I like the results in terms of the Dog loves the food, she looks great, blood work looks good, clean teeth, and small stools with little smell and low body odor.

    Here's what I feed, and most if not all is from the super market. Mostly low cost whole chicken or chicken parts. Whole chicken is 88 cents/lb, and leg quarters are 78 cents/lb. I also buy whole turkey for 90 cents/lb. I sometimes keep the better cuts for ourselves and feed the dog the rest, but often as not she gets all the parts. I've tried to feed her chicken and beef liver, but she does not like it, but will eat hearts, gizzards, and necks. I sometimes buy pork neck bones, but not often as the bones seem very hard as compared to the bones in poultry that eat like crunching kibble (never cooked chicken bones that splinter).

    I feed duck parts like legs, thighs, and any shot up parts. Last week she got goose legs, thighs and necks. People have given me deer meat and she turned her nose up at it, but I'm sure she would eat it now as she's learned to like some of the stronger meats like duck and goose. She probably could use more organ meat in her diet, but I've not pushed it.

    She get's 6 to 8 eggs a week (those I cook), and cottage cheese about every other meal (large container from Samís club.) I also buy raw sweet potatoes and zap them in the microwave and feed her half a one a couple three times a week.

    If we have a roast I'll trim the fat and feed it, likewise with other meat cuts, and sometimes ground beef that's getting old.

    I give her a daily multi vitamin and she gets natural salmon oil (Omega 3ís) with most meals.

    I have no clue of the daily cost as compared to kibble, but it has to be much more the way I'm doing it. There is significant moisture in the raw food so you also feed a little more weight as compared to kibble.

    If I stick with chicken, turkey, eggs, and cottage cheese, sweet potatoes, plus supplements she does fine. Throw in a new meat type and it a 50/50 chance she'll have loose stools for a couple days. So that's been an issue once in a while.

    Hassle factor is significant and I only have one dog at this time. If I'd do a better job of buying in quantities it would be less of an issue. I rarely have more than a weekís work of food on hand made up in freezer bags.

    Sometimes I think life would be easier if I would just fed kibble, but the fact of how much she seems to enjoy her food keeps me motivated to feed raw and I like knowing what in the food my best friend eats (althought I'm stopping short of wondering what kind of food and chemicals these low cost chickens ate)! I have good intentions to shop for lower cost bulk meat, but donít seem to make it past the idea stage.

    I don't have any suggestions for someone who is considering adding raw meat to kibble. I think it's not a bad idea, but most raw food resources suggest all raw so there is little insights about mixing raw with kibble. Annie would most likely eat the chicken and pick at the kibble as she a picky eater in general. A majority of dogs would do fine as they eat what's put in front of them paying little attention to what it is.
    Bob

    "Properly trained, a man can be dog's best friend. "
    -- Corey Ford

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    199

    Default My mom use to live in Tennessee

    She had a friend down there with a rottweiller. The story goes that the dog always looked bad no matter what kind of dog food the gal fed the dog. One day she picked up chicken's etc from the store. The dog came to life and had total differant look in the eyes. Not my story but interesting. I would say that today in 2010 foods like eukanuba should do the trick. If not I would figure a dog has some health issue...................WDsprings you have created some work for sure hope it works out for you. Then again how many people grew up with there parents feeding the dog left overs off the table...................I did from a beagle to a big shepard etc as a kid. We never had a bag of dog food in the house. All are dogs lived normal long lifes.

  10. #10
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    Based on suggestions from earlier threads on dog foods, I switched my 8 month old female lab to Wellness brand puppy food about 3 or 4 months ago. She has done very well on it and I’m pleased with everything except the price. She has never had a taste for her own, or other dogs, poop, but cat and deer nuggets seem to be a delicacy I guess. Do you think the the food is not getting completely digested and is still palatable? YD

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